Thanks for the reply.

/Jonatan.

Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
cal.rasmussen@verizon.net

Columbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 track completed.)

I agree.

Look closer.

The placement of the posts makes it look like Don replyed after Jonatan accepted the facts.

In fact Jonatan is post # 4 where as Shep is # 3.

I am sure Don would have not made such a reply had Jonatan already made his peace

Just a thought

JS

Duncan,
the 819 is a steam locomotive which you can download, but you must donate money to the ones who made it. That's what this post is all about.

/Jonatan

/Jonatan

I really do not care what you think!

Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
cal.rasmussen@verizon.net

Columbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 track completed.)

You mean you actually get paid to act like a dick?

Kevin Arceneaux
It is time for Amtrak to become a fallen flag!

LOL!

It was one of those rare and surprising circumstances wherein we found ourselves facing each other across the negotiating table on a project. During the course of the meeting he commented that I was as cantankerous as my old man. We both had a good laugh over that one!

As for Canadian civility, well, come out West to cattle country some time. I think you'll find things are pretty much as you're used to them at home. LOL!

Lone Wolf: What do you mean by paid?

ARE WE HAVING FUN?

Now without advocating that nobody should donate,as the action of donating is purely optional.If a donation is "required",then whatever you're "buying" by your donation,becomes "payware".

I believe you have in the States an "honor system"?where such things are left to the concience of the individual.The originator seems to have that,or he wouldn't be posting his question.

May I suggest,if the originator of this thread is troubled by his concience,he donate to similar charity of his choice,in his own locality,and get the download anyway.That way somebody in need benefits.

For the intents of train-simming it would seem that definitions are:

Public Domain: Do what you want with it, no strings, licensing or warranties attached.

Freeware: Download and use for free, contains user license that must be adhered to.

Donationware: Download and use contingent on making a donation to a specified organization. Donation goes to charity, author is not making any money. Contains user license that must be adhered to.

Shareware: Download is free. Usage after specified trial period requires paying author specified fee. Commercial software which contains user license that must be adhered to.

Payware: Commercial software, contains user license that must be adhered to.

And let's say something about TA's "Donationware". On other place donationware mean donation to author and not forced. So it's a really donation based on honor and interesting. But TA changed it. They force other people donation first to get access. What that mean? I don't want to discuss that a forced donation shoud not be called "donation". I don't whant to say that a forced donation is not by heart and may let people hate donation. I only want to discuss they software license type. The fact is that TA use they software buy donation. Although they don't get money from it (not all). But they are doing exchange. Using they software exchange donation behavior. Since the value of this exchange can count by money: 5 dollar. So it's a business. Even you have other formula say it's less or more than 5 dollar. Nothing changes to it's a commerical behavior. So they software is actually no doubt commerical software!

TA wanted to do something to help out a charity.
The 9/11 fund and others....
They had 3 choices about how to do it...

Choice 1... Charge for the project and then send the money to the charity... Possibly get involved with Distribution and sales tax and business license... Lots of Bookwork, Big Pain in the A$$!

Choice 2... Same as Choice 1, However have a recognized software publisher do all the grunt work for you eliminating most of the pain in the A$$... Have said publisher take a huge chunk of the profits for administrative costs and their profits...

Choice 3... Have your customers send the money directly to the Charity or charities and then download or get the product from you.... Straight forward and not much bookkeeping on their part....

Which Choice do you think they made?

Too bad the huge number of thieves who downloaded the product (ESE) and then never donated ruined Choice 3 for every one....

Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

Unfortunately that has overheads too.Personally I'd prefer a straight "payware" deal,as the concept of being co-erced into making a "donation",especially of a "recommended" value doesn't fit in with the concept of what a donation is really about.

Here in the UK we have flagdays,I've rattled a few collection tins in my time.The reality of that is that a person donates to buy a flag to contribute to a good cause,and by wearing that flag,shows he\she has donated(this may encourage others to buy also,by peer pressure),but it's left to the donor to decide what to contribute,be it 1p or ?0.

At what point do you classify someone as a "thief"?Below a certain monetary value?
It has been known for folks to get a flag with buttons or washers etc,as there's no scrutiny of what goes into the donation tin by the collector.They are left with their concience,and anonymity.

One of Christ's parables settled that point,where the Widows "mite" was more valuable than the rich man's donation,as it represented a far higher percentage of her worldly wealth than his did.I think 50% was the figure quoted in her case.

I think to clear the waters,TA should decide exactly what their future policy is in clear terms,either A)Freeware,or B)Payware.

Donationware is a hybrid of the above,and although a worthy concept,most hybrids in nature are sterile.

JS

Who knows, we are a strange race.Ty

IIRC The Club TA items are only available, at TA's pleasure as a limited Bonus cancellable at any time with out notice, if you buy American Classics at this time... I believe they have grandfathered in people who had documented charitable contributions prior to this....

They do still have Freeware but it is clearly labled as Freeware!
No ambiguity!

Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works